tv Martin Bashir MSNBC September 30, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
♪ midnight madness, washington style. >> the american people are worried about their jobs. they're worried about their incomes rising. they're all under pressure. >> the ancient practice of sacrifice. >> i am psyched for obamacare! >> this law is not ready for prime time. >> free medicine, y'all! >> house speaker john boehner ready to do at the 11th hour. >> senate decided not to work yesterday. >> boehner has handed the gavel over to cruz. >> harry reid has essentially told house of representatives and american people, go jump in a lake. >> how can you hold the entire federal government hostage? >> i don't think you hear responsible republican leaders advocating a shutdown. >> begging for america to fail. >> we are the party willing to compromise. >> that's like saying instead of chopping off both your arms, we'll chop off only one arm. >> i am at only open to but eager to negotiations.
♪ after midnight we're going to let it all hang down ♪ ♪ good afternoon. we begin with the only question that's ringing around the corridor with the capitol this afternoon. is eight hours enough to stop a government shutdown? with the countdown clock ticking, the nation is bracing itself for what could be the first government shutdown in nearly two decades and the deal is struck before midnight. the senate in session all of 20 minutes today before they voted to reject a house bill that would delay the president's health care law as a condition for keeping the government running. majority leader harry reid came with a blunt message for house speaker john boehner. >> without being too dramatic about this, the fate of the country depends on the house being able to vote. all members of the house of representatives. i hope that john boehner makes a
responsible decision. job protection time is over with. it's time to start protecting the american people. >> they sent a clean funding bill back to the house, where the republican leadership convened a special meeting just a short time ago. and to hear speaker boehner tell it, he's thrilled to have another conundrum land in his lap. >> a wonderful day. >> is there a shutdown today, mr. speaker? >> there you have it, the sounds of silence from speaker boehner. perhaps he had a bit of work hangover this morning after this afternoon, after his brand-new plan. here he is just a few moments ago. >> we're going to move here in the next several hours to take the senate bill, add to it a one-year delay of the individual mandate on the american people and get rid of the exemption for members of congress. >> wonderful. that sounds a lot like the old plan. and on the other side of the aisle, democrats were happy to chime in with their own view of
republican tactics. >> they're compromising because they're not for eliminating obamacare, but delaying it for a year. that's like saying, oh, we're compromising. instead of chopping off both your arms, we'll chop off only one arm. aren't we great. >> it's like mass psychosis has taken over the republican caucus. and they're holding not just democrats hostage, but the entire country hostage in the funding of the government. >> over at the white house, the president will meet with his staff in about 40 minutes to deal with the threat of a shutdown. earlier today, in a meeting with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, the president said he would be happy to negotiate the budget, but only on reasonable terms. >> i am not only open to, but eager to have negotiations around a long-term budget that makes sure that we're investing in middle class families, helping the economy grow, giving
people who are working hard a leg up. but the only way to do that is for everybody to sit down in good faith, without threatening to harm women and veterans and children with a government shutdown. >> as the speaker likes to say, hope springs eternal. casey hunt live on capitol hill. casey, the last time i saw so many headless chickens, was when i was filming at an organic poultry farm. what on earth are republicans now proposing to prevent a shutdown? >> reporter: well, martin, good afternoon. at this point, there's very little on the prevention side. no question this afternoon we are slouching toward a shutdown. the senate very quickly rejected what the house passed late on saturday night. senate right back. and now house speaker, john boehner, as you just saw, is saying they want to propose a one-year delay of the individual mandate and they also want to
prevent members of congress and their staff from receiving subsidies to pay for health care under the exchange. so at this point, that's really an indication that republicans are not nearly as far along as some democrats hope they might be at this point. the fact that they put that one-year mandate delay on top of the language that prevents subsidies means we still have quite a ways to go before house speaker boehner is going to find enough votes or convince enough members of the right wing of his caucus that what they need to do is pass a quote, unquote, clean, continuing resolution that funds the government without making any changes to obamacare. >> you've got a long night ahead. nbc's casey hunt. let's get right to our panel. with us from washington is msnbc david corn. robert costa of the national review and dana milbank, who we
freshly sprung from jury duty. david, you heard congressman conley say that mass psychosis has taken over the republican caucus. is that the real explanation for why house republicans now careen head-long in what they know full well is a dead end, with 800,000 workers and the american economy basically hostage in the back seat? >> i don't think it's mass psychosis. i think you have a gang of 30, 40, 50, maybe 60 republicans. we don't know the exact number -- >> hang on a second, david. 231 of them voted yesterday morning for this. >> exactly. >> that's mass psychosis! >> no. my point is, that there is a very big tail that's wagging a very weak dog. the weak dog being john boehner, perhaps the weakest political leader in washington since the articles of the confederation. and you have this tail, which is already being run now by ted cruz on the other side of the capitol hill in the senate. and john boehner is not being
allowed -- he is being held hostage, as well as robert costa will tell us, by the die-hard extremist wing of his party, which refuses to bend to yield. and they've -- they are basically turning into contortionists when they say, listen, if you don't accept our threat, if you don't -- you know, if you don't -- you know, give into our commands to spring the hostages, you're not compromising. wait a second. when you take hostages, that's not a negotiation, that's not a compromise situation. yet they keep insisting they're doing what the american people want. even though the american people in the last election voted for the guy who was named after obamacare, if i got that right. they voted 1 million more votes for democrat ittic candidates for the house than republicans who still ended up with control. though there is no real evidence out there in electoral results that america wants these people to do this. so if there is any delusion, it's john boehner's delusion
that he's acting at the behest of most americans. >> okay. robert, i know you saw speaker boehner at breakfast. >> i did. >> and he says he's having another, and i'm quoting him, wonderful day. really? because it seems to me he's trying to scale something like a 50-foot wall with the rabid right wing of his caucus literally snapping at his heels. >> exactly right. i saw speaker boehner at his favorite capitol hill haunt and as usual, he had a dry, dark sense of humor about the day's events. he knows he's trying to corral a lot of conservatives in a direction they don't want to go. and we're hurdling toward a shutdown and i think john boehner will try to avert a shut down but it seems his conference isn't willing to go along with him. >> robert, to that point -- >> martin, it's important to note, we should never forget that if there was an open vote in the house, a majority of house members, democratic -- democrats and republicans would vote for a clean bill. so if you really are going by
democratic rules here -- >> sure. >> -- then we would have an easy resolution. it's because john boehner won't divide those yapping dogs at his heels that we have an anti democratic action under way. >> that's right, robert. isn't it? >> i think that's exactly right. and david brings up a good point. there's probably a silent majority of maybe 100 to 120 house republicans who if a clean cr came to the floor, would be willing to support it. but because of the pressure from tea party incorporated, because of pressure from the conservative movement and boehner has handled the cr, proposing all these revised crs, the majority is staying silent. >> you seem to think he has some power at his disposal, if only he would deploy it. but isn't he reluctant, because knows the moment he leaves, the moment he loses speakership. >> you can play that trick exactly once before they kick you out. i was just at the boehner news conference right now. and even at this point, if the
guy really wanted to make something happen to avoid this shutdown, it looks like it's -- it's going to be virtually impossible, just because of the amount of time it's going to take to get the house to vote. so i've heard you talk about yapping dogs and headless chickens, but i think at this point we are definitely in the lemming phase of things, following the tea party over the edge. >> right. dare i remind our viewers, what we're talking about at best is funding the government for another six weeks. but even that appears to be beyond republicans who seem determined to create this kind of anarchy, if they can't repeal what is the law of the land, the affordable care act. >> well, it seems to me, when you take hostages off, it's to get something in return. and you usually want to have somewhat of a reasonable demand, so there is a chance that it's being met. but i think a lot of the hostage-takers here would rather, you know, shoot the hostage, blow up the bank, whatever you want to say, because they don't like the government. if they shut down the
government, that's actually a net win for them. if they shut down the government while, you know -- attacking obamacare, that's a two fer. so there is a lot of motivation here for a small number of republicans to keep pushing, pushing, pushing. and if john boehner is not going to be able to say no to them out of fear of losing his speakership, he's going to keep, you know, giving them the keys to the car. and i don't see any way to avert a crash at the end of this. >> right. and robert, we understand that gop staffers were sent out of the room this afternoon during negotiations. and we now know why that was. because speaker boehner is proposing an exemption for members of congress on their own health care. >> that's exactly right, martin. first, the gop tried to defund. then they tried to delay. now they're trying to delay the individual mandate. and their fourth option is a so-called vitter amendment, which ends subsidies for congressional staffers and members. there was a real reason staffers weren't welcome at the meeting, because they were talking about
staffers' health care benefits. >> it's awful. >> about cutting those benefits. >> exactly. dana, final question to you. i keep hearing from speaker boehner and his friends at these news conferences they are representing the american people. as i understand it, the american people re-elected the president, but also, the law doesn't come into full effect until tomorrow. so who are these people representing? >> well, the american people actually voted for a majority of them voted for democrats to control the house. so that's not technically true. the speaker has a rhetorical problem. he said that's it, we're not going to yield unless they get rid of obamacare completely. and then he said that's it not unless they delay for a year. and now they're saying unless they stop exempting schedule c. now you're going to shut down the federal government over exempting schedule c? i can't see that working for them. >> nor can i. gentlemen, thank you so much for your expertise. thank you. coming up, is an 11th-hour deal on the cards? we'll ask a member of congress what's happening right now
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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. in less than eight hours, we'll know if republicans have managed to achieve their latest act of political extortion. and if they failed to defund the affordable care act by threatening to shut down the government, then they plan to try again in just two weeks, when they'll risk the full faith and credit of the united states. it is an insane and economically suicidal prop session. and one perfectly satirized by our next guest in the "new yorker" magazine. congressman steve israel has illustrated what would happen if the average american family made the same demands of their credit
card company that republicans are demanding of the country. quote, yes, it is true that i used my credit card to buy dinner at the sushi buffet all day in marysville. and yes, we did take our annual goplin family trip to old testament town. but that's not the point. if we pay this month's american express bill, what will happen next month? next year? what will happen to future generations of goplins with american express cards? we must draw a line. we are drawing it at the october statement of charges. do not expect my payment. joining us now is the james thusher of the house of representatives, steve israel. good afternoon, sir. >> i've been called far worse than that. >> i'm sure you have. it's a wonderful work of literary genius. our article is eminently sensible and looks at republican threats over the debt ceiling. i have to ask you, sir. why are they so desperate, why, to take this country and if a default occurs, the world over
the precipice. why? >> because they're idealogues, reject compromise, common sense. this is extremism at its worst. we democrats trying to keep this government open for our veterans who want their disability payments or students who want their tuition assistance, we gave the republicans an offer. we said we'll take your budget number. republicans have said take it or leave it and we said we'll take it. just keep the government open. and don't dephubbfund health ca. and you know what they did, martin, they slammed the door on their own number. they walked away from their own budget. i don't mind them slamming the door on me. i do resent when they slam the door on the middle class. >> sir, congressman, i need to tell you, we just had breaking news that the president himself, who has talked about seeking to defend ordinary americans from this potential shutdown, is going to come to the white house
briefing room at 4:45 p.m. that's in just under 30 minutes. and address us all. we will go to that live. but i have to come back to you. how much does it bother you that there are house republicans who genuinely believe that defaulting is not a bad thing. >> well, it is a dangerous view. in fact, one house republican, when told that virtually every economist agrees that a default would be catastrophic, his response was, well, economists aren't always right. you know, with these house republicans, two plus two equals whatever they want it to be. it is dangerous. we will not negotiate the full faith and credit of the united states' government. and if you're a republican who is spending $40 billion every ten years to subsidize big oil companies, you've got to pay the bill. you can't put stuff on the credit card, as i say in that piece in the "new yorker," and then wake up and say, you know what, i don't feel like paying it. no american gets to say that to american express and no member
of congress should be able to say it to the u.s. treasury. >> on the current battle over a possible shutdown, a lot of people openly wonder whether mr. boehner is now simply speaker in name-only. i'd like you to listen to how a new new york republican addressed that. take a listen. >> what's your sense of the end game here? do you think your fellow republicans would rather shut down the government than pass a cr without an obamacare limit? >> i guess it depends how many people are controlled by ted cruz. >> do you agree? is at the cruz now the de facto speaker? >> yes. ted cruz is the new speaker of the house of representatives. the irony is that john boehner is making these calculations in order to keep the gavel. in the process, he is losing the economy, he is losing the middle class and he has lost to ted cruz. martin, i want to be clear. we have got the votes to pass a clean cr. >> oh, there has never been any doubt about that. there has never been any doubt. >> that's right. john boehner needs to decide, is
it the middle class who comes first or his own speakership. >> but congressman, why do people like boehner and others like kevin mccarthy, they were all standing at the mic just now. why do they continue to act as if the american public is actually behind them when the polls generally show the exact opposite? >> well, yeah, they keep saying, listen to the american people. what they really mean is, listen to our echo chamber. listen to our tea party rally. listen to the press conference we have by ourselves on the steps of the capitol. every poll that i've seen is the chairman of the democrat and campaign committee is crystal-clear. the american people do not want to government to shut down over defunding the affordable care act. but if you listen to these republicans, they believe they have the absolute truth. they need to listen to the american people. in fact, republicans should listen to republicans and take the budget that we've just agreed to, which is their budget. >> isn't there something finally, sir, utterly reprehensible about an individual party that looks forward to throwing 12 million
people off health care? >> well, it is reprehensible. it is reprehensible that they would be willing to pass farm subsidies for themselves, including one member of congress from tennessee who will collect $3 million in farm subsidies for his farm, while at the same time voting to strip nutritional assistance program from the farm bill. >> unbelievable. >> this is critical and reprehensible. >> representative steve israel. sir, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. we just learned the president will deliver a statement from the briefing room at 4:45 p.m. which, of course, we'll bring you live. and still ahead, more on the unspeakable pickle in which the speaker now finds himself. thanks a lot, senator cruz. since binge-watching is in, and filibusters are in, john boehner must make a series for netflix, in which he replaces obama. and, of course, it's called "orange is the new black." ♪
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but first, from the rise of ted cruz to the collapse of john boehner. here are today's top lines. nice house you got there. >> is there anyone here with something serious to say about the new health care system? >> i'm senator ted cruz. >> ted cruz. >> ted cruz. >> why are republicans so angry at ted cruz? >> you have colleagues who have accused you of putting on a show. that was senator corker. >> republican congressman, pete king, of new york calls you a fraud. >> congressman peter king said you were a fraud. >> i'm tired of having ted cruz call the shots for the republicans. >> you said let's go out and kill the law. >> actually, the premise of your question is wrong. >> do you regret comparing future obamacare to the rise of hitler in nazi germany? >> you go to the 1940s, nazi germany. >> the premise of your question isn't true. i didn't make that comparison. >> can't you give me a straight answer anymore? >> he reminds me of miley cyrus, ted cruz.
>> he is not afraid to incur the wrath of even some of his fans. to the greater good of drawing attention to himself. >> allegations of hostage-taking, blackmail, extortion. >> it's like a 1930s gangster film. nice government you got there. >> hey, nice house. i said, nice house. you live there? >> nice economy you got there. pity it should blow up. >> nice to have a family. man should take care, see that nothing happens to them. >> nobody agrees this is -- if the government shuts down. >> really the focus is on john boehner. >> it's almost as if he has become a spokesman. >> well, my goodness. >> sadly, we're watching the collapse of john boehner as a house speaker. >> nobody is in control of house republicans at this point, as far as i can tell. >> let's get right to our panel. joining us now is msnbc contributor goldie taylor and brad woodhouse. before we get into it, i want to
remind our viewers, the president will be speaking in about -- what is it, 14 minutes? to the nation from the white house briefing room. we'll bring that live. brad, speaker boehner has reportedly warned a government shutdown could mean the end of his 17-seat majority in the house of representatives. given what they did with the debt ceiling two years ago, the sequester in march, and now this fight over funding the government, why would anyone want to retain them as the majority in the house? >> well, i can't imagine why anyone would want to retain them as the majority in the house. here's the problem, though, martin, is these districts are so drawn towards these tea party republicans, they don't fear anything. they don't fear the polls, they don't fear bad editorials. they don't fear what a shutdown of the government would do to the economy or to real people. >> so are you saying -- are you saying even if they shut down the government, they won't lose their majority in the house? >> well, look. i think they do risk losing their majority in the house.
but the people from these districts, likely a lot of these tea party republicans, they wouldn't lose their districts. their districts were drawn for them to win. it would be the silent majority, those republicans in the house that are tired of this game, that want to get beyond this, who come from more swing districts. those would be the ones that would be -- would be at stake. those people are the ones that should be speaking up and telling john boehner, enough already. >> yeah. goldy, boehner's speakership could hardly be described as superlative. this is, "a pivotal moment" for the speaker. but could it be the end if not the end of speaker boehner, maybe the beginning of the end? >> you know, speaker boehner's speakership ended a few years ago. >> that's true, actually. >> when the tea party coalition really took over. the cruz caucus has been in charge for many, many months, including rand paul. so we're watching speaker boehner not lead this house, but
really take dictation from this caucus. at the end of the day, ted cruz stood on the floor of the senate and twerked america for 21 hours. and now it looks like speaker boehner is having to do a little bit of twerking and jerking of his own. tonight, he's going to send back a bill back to the senate that literally shuts down this government, just after midnight. and that's something not to be proud. it's quite shameful, tough. >> yeah. brad, republicans in washington are doing their fair share of damage, no doubt. but let's not forget about the rest of the country. >> right. >> last month, north carolina's deeply unpopular governor, pat mckrorly signed one of the most restrictive voter i.d. laws into effect and now today his state is being sued by the federal government. doesn't this sum up the current iteration of the republican party? you have dysfunction in washington, and then you have destruction to voting rights around the country. >> well, it really does.
look, these things are two peas out of the same pod, martin. it is extreme republicanism. it's a party that is narrow geographically. it's narrow i'd logically. they know they're fighting for their political lives. so they have to do stuff, like be extreme in washington so they don't get primaried back at home and deny people the right to vote -- easy access to the ballot, because they know those people have tended to vote democratic. it's really disgusting. i think it does spell real trouble for the republican party going forward in national elections, maybe in some state elections, and maybe once we get these districts redrawn in a few years in the house too. >> right. goldie, let's take a listen to what the attorney general had to say this afternoon when he announced the lawsuit against north carolina. here's the attorney general. >> the state legislature took extremely aggressive steps to curtail the voting rights of african-americans.
this is an intentional step to break a system that was working. and it defies common sense. >> i and my colleagues at every level of the justice department, will never hesitate, never hesitate, to do all that we must do to protect the constitutionally guaranteed civil rights of all americans. >> goldie, the attorney general was absolutely blummed. he said this was an intentional strategy to deny african-americans the right to vote. >> he absolutely is right about that. it's also intentional the republican state houses around the country get together right after the census, and ironically, used the voting rights act to draw themselves into very safe districts. it's upon that basis they are now challenging the affordable care act. it's upon that basis they are talking about this so-called majority in the house of representatives. in fact, they are one fifth of one-third of this branch of government. if they keep it up, they're going to become a very localized
party and strong two-party nation we have come to rely on will be broken irreparably. >> i wonder if i can ask you what you think the president is going to say when he comes to that podium at 4:45 today. we've heard from john boehner. he said he is sending back a bill with a one had-year delay of the individual mandate. and also to get rid of the exemption for members of congress. what does the president say? >> well, i'll tell you what. in my experience, he's going to come out, and he'll be strong. he'll say enough, already. he'll say, look, you're fighting this issue of funding the government over obamacare. obamacare is going live tomorrow. at 8:00 tomorrow morning, the website will be up. people will be enrolling. in three months, people will be getting access to health care through the exchanges. and the president is going to say, nothing you're going to do here in shutting the government down is going to stop obamacare. so stop the silliness, do your job. you have two jobs. you have to pay the debt, you
have to pay our bills and you have to fund the government. do those two jobs, it's enough already. >> yeah. goldie, we're just watching pictures of the briefing room being set up with cameras being hung in various positions. the president said last week, republicans have got to understand that this is not a concession to me. this is not a favor to me. but -- and yet they cannot seem to get it out of their minds their opposition to this specific president has spilled over into every area of policy. it doesn't matter what he says, they're just opposed to him. >> you know, i've called it obama derangement syndrome and in fact, that's exactly what it is. they're not content just to obstruct this president and his agenda. but now they're going back and they are obstructing the agenda of previous presidents and previous congresses. because that's what it means not to raise the debt ceiling. it is not the money that this president has spent. it's the money that prior presidents have spent. it's not that they're doing him a favor.
they're doing, in fact, themselves a favor by paying the bills that they have already rang up. and so that's what this is really about. but in their derangement, they believe this is simply a backlash to an illegitimate president who shouldn't be in the white house any old way. and, in fact, they're going to wind up hurting themselves in irreparable ways, not locally. i believe some of these lolley elected congressmen and women are going to stay in office. but they're going to hurt themselves as a national party. but we're not really dealing with one national party. we're, in fact, dealing with two. a very small minority of 30 or 40 congressmen and women who are really running roughshod over the party. and who do you have to blame for that, karl rove, speaker boehner. people who seated and gave life and license to this tea party and the monster they fed is now sitting before them, demanding more. >> absolutely. gold tie taylor and brad
woodhouse. the president is expected to make a statement from the white house briefing room just minutes from now. and, of course, stay with us. we will bring that live in a moment. ♪ [ male announcer ] you know that family? the one whose eye for design is apparent in every detail? ♪ whose refined taste is best characterized by the company they keep? ♪ well...say hello to the newest member of the family. the cadillac srx. awarded best interior design of any luxury brand. take advantage of this exceptional offer on the 2013 cadillac srx with premium care maintenance included.
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[ male announcer ] and roasted white meat chicken. just like yours. [ male announcer ] you'll think it's homemade. i love this show. [ male announcer ] try campbell's homestyle soup. now to the white house. the president is expected in the white house briefing room at any moment where he will deliver a statement. and later this afternoon, he'll be meeting with his cabinet to discuss the ramifications of a potential government shutdown. for more, we're joined by white house correspondent peter alexander, just outside the briefing room. peter, what should we expect from the president. >> martin, we will hear from the president momentarily. i spoke to some of the advisers and i think it's likely we will hear the president reiterate comments he made earlier today to reporters immediately after his conversation with prime minister benjamin netanyahu of israel where he addressed not so much optimism, but as he described t the fact he was not at all resigned to the fact that
there had to be a government shutdown. it's likely the president will also reiterate the responsibilities of congress, which are to pass a budget and to pay its bills. this white house, as you're aware, has made it very clear they will not negotiate over the debt ceiling, and they're not going to support anything that the house republicans guided, egged on by the tea party republicans. the tea party conservatives have pushed them to do. the president has insisted that there has to be a clean resolution. that funds the government going forward. it's likely he will reiterate those points in the conversation with all americans coming up in a matter of moments from now. >> yet, pete, we have just heard, literally in the hour, speaker boehner say he's sending back a bill to the senate with a one-year delay of the individual mandate. and to get rid of the exemption for members of congress. there is very little compromise in what speaker boehner has sent back, is there? >> clearly, it's dejavu all over again.
this is exactly what the white house said, the republicans are playing games, in their eyes. jay carney, press secretary, was asked about this only a short time ago, even before we heard exactly what the speaker of the house, john boehner, and the republicans would be presentin . again this afternoon. but jay carney said none of this is acceptable. he referred to it as blatant extortion. if there has been any movement by this white house, i think it is toward their willingness to better consider a long-term negotiation. it's the idea, i think, that they're most upset by, the idea they would be negotiating a year delay. obviously, they're not going to put up with that or defunding over the president's key signature health care achievement for what is a one-month, two-month, maybe two-and-a-half month cr, continuing resolution. if there was some discussion about some changes are for a year extension, they may be inclined to have those conversations. but obviously it cannot be things that undermine the signature legislative
achievement being obamacare, his health care law. >> and this shutdown itself, this potential shutdown, is likely to be catastrophic, because not a single appropriations bill has been passed, has it? >> no. you're exactly right. actually, we were trying to find a better impact about exactly how people are affected by this. there are numerous ways to see how the impact will take place tomorrow, if, in fact, there is a government shutdown. we have talked about the hundreds of thousands of furloughs, the ious that some would receive instead of paychecks. but there are also smaller individuals that are being affected by this, as well. we spoke to one family in the boston area that's flying out west in the next couple of days where they're supposed to be doing a national park tour. that obviously will be impacted. there's an air force family that we have had conversations with today. this family has three children. they're expecting their fourth soon and for the airman, he told us basically that he is not going to be able to take paternity time, because so many
of his colleagues will likely be furloughed as a result. they are civilian contractors. the impacts are great. and as significant as anything, martin, just the fact that we got to this point. even if they avoid a shutdown, the fact we got to this point has cost the u.s. -- that means you and me, taxpayers, a lot of money. and all the provisions, the preparations, the lost productivity to prepare us for this situation that may or may not happen if we wait until midnight to see. >> and just to your point, pete, as i understand it, the cost per day, per single day, of a government shutdown, is between 40 and $80 billion. >> yeah. no, it's remarkable. if you consider the last shutdown that was now almost 17 years ago, in today's dollars, a $2 billion cost to the country. so this is real dollars. it's taxpayer dollars in many cases. there is a severe impact. and martin, you've talked about this often. but when you govern by crisis, it's a phrase the white house
often criticizes house republicans with that phrase, they're governing crisis to crisis. that is costly, as well. if you put in terms of a family budget, think of it this way. if you're taking your family out for dinner and afford only what you do tonight, wherever you go, you pay for one day's worth of food. but if you know you can buy a month's worth, go to costco, you buy stuff in bulk, it's dramatically less expensive. but it's going day to day that makes the expenses greater for the u.s., and taxpayers and by playing this game, costing all of us. >> thank you, pete. do stay with us. we are waiting for the president. we were told he would speak around 4:45. we're still waiting. i still have with us brad woodhousen. brad, reflecting for a moment on what peter alexander just said, compared with the last government shutdown and people say history ought to teach us something, that was hardly very successful or beneficial to republicans. why are they so hell bent on doing in this time, and potentially with even more
catastrophic effects? >> well, look, there are catastrophic effects and i think there will be one will be to the economy. and this will actually hurt a lot of people in districts represented by the very republicans that are shutting the government down. there are federal government employees all over the country, federal contractors all over the country. this is going to hurt everyone. but it's going to really hurt the republicans, even more. you're right. seven appropriations bills had been passed and signed into law by the time the government shut down the last time, when newt gingrich and john boehner were running the republican caucus. no appropriation bill has been passed and signed into law. so the effects are going to be that much more magnified. and it's just a shame that this has to happen. but before it's over with, speaker cruz is going to run the republicans and the economy into the ground. >> thanks, brad. our correspondent, craig melvin, is outside a military base, i believe. where are you, craig?
>> reporter: we are, martin, in southern new jersey. this is joint base dicks mcguire lake hurst. a lot of folks have been talking about the looming shutdown. they -- they sort -- a lot of folks talk in the abstract. here, though, not abstract at all. 6,700 civilian employees could potentially be directly impacted by a government shutdown. 800,000. that's the number of federal furloughed workers we have been tossing about. thousands of them would come from this community alone. these are some of the same folks who just a few months ago had to take six days unpaid as a result of those automatic spending cuts known as the sequester. so now a lot of folks who work here at the joint military base, they'll come to work tomorrow morning, no matter what. but a deputy commander told me a few hours ago that after they
show up -- if the government has been shut down, he will have to send thousands of them home. right now they're deciding essentially who is essential, who is not essential. they're looking at -- they're looking at the daily mission tomorrow. folks who are required to be here as a matter of national security or public safety. they'll be deemed essential. but they're going mission by mission, person by person. they have been doing that throughout the course of the day. so real-world effects here at this military base. this, of course, is a military community. the retirees who live here. we spent some time at a dine they are afternoon, and not one person we talked to in that diner had an appetite for a shutdown. every person said virtually a variation of the same thing. we're sick of this. we're tired of this. we don't understand this. >> absolutely. >> so, yeah. >> the house voted this weekend and the senate just earlier today, to continue paying members of the military in the
event of a shutdown. but this does not include civilian defense workers, does it? and many of those serve in that base where you're standing. >> right. it does not. the senate just paenl with apparently within the past hour voted on that bill. and it's also not clear whether president obama is going to sign that either. one would have to surmise that he probably won't. but, yeah, you're right. i mean, even if there is an exemption, there are still folks who either not get paid when they're supposed to be paid. because, again, you know, these folks get ious. but a lot of these folks that we've talked to, they live paycheck to paycheck, martin. paycheck to paycheck, like a lot of people in this country are forced to do. so, you know, when you talk about not being paid for two weeks or maybe even longer, it makes it very difficult to budget. makes it very difficult for people to plan. >> and that's the real effect of the sequester on people's lives. that's not a phrase.
that's the word, as it were, made flesh. that's what it means in practice. >> and it's very interesting that you should raise that point, because, again, the conversation i had with the deputy commander a few hours ago, one of the things we talked about was just that feeling of anxiety. that the folks here on the military base have expressed to him. not just over the looming government shutdown, but over the past few months. because as you just indicated, the sequester -- this is something that has real-world implications for the people who work here. thousands of people. these -- not just civilian contractors, but the civilian employees, as well, who, you know, call this military base home. they have been over the past few months forced to deal with those unpaid furlough days, and now this as well. and, again, you know, when you start talking to folks who are not making a great deal of money to start with, and then you ask them, you know what, we may need you to wait, you know, a week or two to even get that check to
you. that's a big ask for a lot of people oh. not just in this community. but all over the country. this -- these are the conversations that are being had at military installations like this one, all over america today. >> absolutely. craig melvin. craig in new jersey, thanks so much, craig. and i'm delighted to say that we're joined by ed schultz, who, of course, picks up with "the ed show" at 5:00. waiting for the president to speak there in the white house in the briefing room. ed, representative jerry connelly earlier today, democrat, said mass psychosis has taken over the republicans. that's not an inaccurate statement, is it? >> no, it isn't, martin. and this really has been a remarkable day. if you are a progressive or liberal and counting on this president to stand up to the republicans, you've got your hour. i believe the president is going to come out in just a few moments and say that we've gone as far as we're going to go. and this is the way it's going to be. i've been elected twice, the people are behind me. there's no survey out there that says we should move any further
on this. we have found out today that harry reid definitely has a spine. that he has drawn his line in the sand. and this has really put john boehner's back up against the wall. he has to pick a side. is it going to be the minority of the tea partiers in his caucus or will it be the american people? and make no mistake. that if this shutdown takes place, boehner is going to be under immense pressure after the shutdown to hold his ground from the tea party crowd, and from the zealots over on the right. and this shutdown may be longer, in my estimation, than the one we saw during the clinton years. so this is some serious stuff that's unfolding today. a lot of people are going to be hurt by this. but i think a lot of people are going to see president obama step up in just a few moments and say this is the way it's going to be. i'm the president, we have -- there will be no negotiation on this law. i've been re-elected. this is what the people want. there's no survey out there that supports what you're saying. this is where the people are. we need to move on. >> but ed, you and many others
keep saying, this is just a tiny caucus of tea party lunatics. this is the extreme fringe. and yet we're talking about 231 republicans who voted to cripple the affordable care act yesterday. i mean, this isn't a minority. >> no. no, i -- i hear what you're saying, martin. but these people, i believe, in their heart there are some republicans that are only going along for fear. they're going along because they don't want to become a target within their own party that they're going to get primaried. you're right. i -- we've made this case on the "ed show" time and time again that ted cruz is now the face of the republican party. he owns it at this hour, as i see it. because he is driving this legislative agenda over on the house side by all his semantics he has unfolded on the senate side. it is a strange turn of events in american politics, no question about it. but it only strengthens the president, i believe, with the american people. i think the president has been very clear where he stands. i think the president has been
very clear what with the american people. i think the profound comments that bill clinton made yesterday -- i think play right into where the american people are. and i come to you, martin, from the middle of the country. i can guarantee, i talked to a lot of people this weekend and a number of different locations in minnesota and in north dakota, and i can tell you that they're not hanging on what the next amendment is going to be. that's not where the american people are right now. the american people right now are -- are we going to have a shutdown, and who is responsible for it, and how do we get out of this mess. and -- >> does it surprise you, ed, given what happened in 2011, when the credit worthiness of this nation was downgraded, when -- you know, job growth slowed, when consumer confidence collapsed, why would the republicans want to do this again, within two years? they know the evidence. the economy is still struggling in its recovery. why do this? >> well, i think the republican
and the conservative movement in this country often times will take a step back and view things from a generational standpoint. they know that if they allow obamacare to go through, if they don't exhaust every effort to try to stop this, even so far as to shutting down the government, that this is going to be the tide turning on them. they have to stop this. because once it gets going, it is going to be widely popular. martin, i think a year from now, you and i are going to be sitting here having a conversation talking about round two of health care, because this has been so popular and saved so many lives and changed so many lives. i think it's going to be that good. i think the republicans know that. they're exhausting every effort they possibly can to try to stop this. so i think from a generational standpoint, the republicans know they have to have this fight right now. the short-term loss is going to be how are they going to recover from this. how are they ever going to be able to come back together as a party and do a good job in the mid terms? so this is -- this is a real
tough hour for john boehner right now. he has to turn to his caucus and say, look, we've tried everything. it didn't work. we're going to go with the president. we're going to fund this government. and let's put it up for a vote. if john boehner tonight puts it up for a vote, on the house floor, it will pass. what the senate has done. and he knows it will pass. but it's also going to cost -- him and it will cost also some people in the house. >> i have no doubt about it. ed schultz, an hour is not long enough for you, ed. thanks so much. and, of course, you'll pick things up at 5:00, as we await a statement from the president. peter alexander joins us just outside the white house. pete, anymore information about what we should expect from the president? he's 15 minutes late. >> reporter: yeah, he's 15 minutes late, but he's also approaching the top of the hour, 5:00 across the east coast and when you have the bully pulpit, that mega phone, this is a pretty big audience he'll have watching right now is one more time before we hit that midnight hour. he sort of has all eyes on him,
martin. it's likely he will once again say this is in the hands of the republicans to act. >> peter alexander, thanks so much. we, of course, awaiting a statement from the president. ed schultz picks up our coverage right now. thank you, martin. and martin, if you can, stay with us. i'd like to ask you, what do you think are some of the options that president obama is going to have right now. welcome to "the ed show" here on msnbc. we have been given the two-minute warning the president will be stepping forward here in a few moments in the briefing room to give a statement to the american people. all the legislative action that has taken place tonight, all day long. there is no question that president obama seems to be in a position of strength, as i can see it. harry reid has signalled that. former president bill clinton has signaled that yesterday. and with the legislative action today, you saw harry reid stand his ground. there will be no defunding of obamacare. there won't be any provisions to delay. and john boehner is clearly